|Last Updated: 8/5 8:00AM
Note: This page will soon be your homepage for scores and schedules!
NOTE: Due to the large number of players on teams taking the summer off, we have postponed these leagues until the Fall (August/September/October). Email us to be placed on our contact list. Thanks for your patience and please disregard the information below...
Table of Contents
Start Date of 6/22 or 6/24
Registration (and PayPal button)
Current List of Free Agents
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
START DATE: Thursday, July 8, 2004*
* - Half of the league will start on Thursday, June 24
END DATE: Roughly mid- to late-Sept. 2004
12-14 weeks elapsed -- smooth sailing (no holidays)
REGISTRATION DEADLINE: Friday, July *2*, 2004 at 11:59PM sharp
(registration instructions below)
LEVELS OF COMPETITION:
- National League (aka "Top Gun" or "Competitive")
- American League (aka "Intermediate")
Click here for the FAQ on levels of competition.
SPECIFIC LOCATIONS AND ADDRESSES:
St. Mary's Recreation Center
Intersection of Justin Dr. & Murray St.
San Francisco, CA 94112
(off of 280 DalyCity/Alemany exit)
other Rec Centers will be used as a backup, just in case
Enola D. Maxwell Middle School
655 De Haro Street
San Francisco, CA 94107
(off of 101/Vermont exit or 280/Mariposa exit)
- Teams in each league (NL or AL) play only other teams in their respective league
- Tipoff times: 7pm/8pm, maybe 9pm too, alternating Tuesdays and Thursdays
- NBA-Style Rules (4 quarters, 24-second shot clock, 6 personal fouls, double-bonus on 5th team foul, etc.)
- 8 regular season games (or 7 if there are 7 teams or less)
- 1 "bye" week can be granted to each team if necessary (i.e., add a makeup weekend)
- 4 weeks of double-elimination playoffs (single-elimination for cellar-dwellars)
- Game stats online! (see our previous leagues from our homepage)
- Champions get either t-shirts or trophies (your choice)
COSTS PER TEAM:
$200 minimum deposit (applied to total) on or before Friday, July 2, 2004 to hold your team's spot
$640 TOTAL for up to 8 players
$720 TOTAL for 9 players
$750 TOTAL for 10, 11, or 12 players
FREE AGENTS ARE WELCOME (we are forming free agent teams now at $75 per free agent, see list below)
(see the FAQ below for more roster rules)
CAPTAINS WHO ACT RESPONSIBLY BY PAYING THEIR *ENTIRE* TEAM FEE ($640, $720, OR $750) BY THE DEADLINE WILL RECEIVE A FREE LIMITED EDITION DREAMLEAGUE T-SHIRT OR $6 CASH BACK (captain's choice)
A MINIMUM $200 DEPOSIT IS REQUIRED TO HOLD YOUR TEAM'S SPOT AND BE INCLUDED IN THE SEASON SCHEDULING
A $5 *PER-WEEK* LATE PENALTY WILL BE ASSESSED ON EACH PLAYER'S ROSTER SPOT THAT FAILS TO BE PAID BY THE FIRST GAME
DUE TO OUR EXPERIENCE WITH TEAMS DROPPING OUT AND ADVERSELY AFFECTING THE REST OF THE TEAMS AND SCHEDULE, ABSOLUTELY NO REFUNDS WILL BE GIVEN. DO NOT SIGN UP IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF YOUR TEAM MAKING IT TO EVERY GAME.
HOW TO REGISTER:
(Please follow Steps 1, 2, and 3 carefully below)
(1) Have your captain send a team roster via email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Or if you are a free agent, specify that you are a free agent looking for a team to play on. Please include the following information:
- Captain or free agent's name
- Captain or free agent's phone number
- Captain or free agent's email address
- Team name
- Tentative roster (can be changed later)
- Bye week preferences (up to 5, in order of priority, do not assume that holidays are byes)
- Tuesday/Thursday and 7pm/8pm/9pm time slot preferences
(2) Captains can either pay the entire team fee or a $200 deposit to hold your spot before the deadline of July 2, 2004 at 11:59PM. Captains that act responsibly and pay the entire lump sum or have *all* players individually paid up before the deadline will receive a free limited edition Dream League t-shirt. Quite frankly we are tired of dealing with individuals who are slow on payments or forget their money on the day of the game, and we're not here to give you a gym, refs, and another team to play against for free, therefore a $5 per-week late fee will be assessed for each player that does not pay for his spot before the first game played.
PAY IN ONE OF THE FOLLOWING WAYS, (a), (b), or (c):
(a) Click the "DONATE" button below and we will contact you via your PayPal email account for further details such as player and team names. Note for team captains: we do accept payments individually, but players that are not accounted for will not be allowed to play.
NOTE: Dream League is a nonprofit organized under Section 501c(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.
(b) Make checks payable and mail your payment before the deadline to:
1512 19th Street
San Francisco, CA 94107
(c) For cash payments, arrange a pick-up/drop-off by sending an email to email@example.com.
(3) Based on the payments we receive by Friday, July 2, we will build the season schedule and distribute it via email to captains and free agents only by 11:59PM on Monday, July 5, 2004 (it does take three days to hash out the scheduling). Captains will then be responsible for communicating such league scheduling issues to each individual player on their team. For the sake of not forfeiting and putting a competitive team on the floor (i.e., 5 players plus a bench), please make sure your team enlists a capable, responsible captain!
Unique dark/white numbered t-shirts or jerseys on *both* the front and back are required for each team. If your team is lacking in such jerseys, please contact either Sports & Graphics in South SF at 650.588.3216 or MVP Sports in Oakland at 510.567.8370. Costs range from $1.50 per digit heat-pressed to $22 per jersey to $5 for t-shirts to $2 per t-shirt with ironed-on number.
We require strict adherance to this rule because it is extremely difficult to keep stats when we can't see jersey numbers. Taping numbers does not work, as the tape *always* falls off. Failure to adhere by this rule has and will result in a technical foul per illegal jersey, to be enforced before tipoff.
Warning after the first forfeit, $50 each subsequent forfeit, to be paid by the team prior to the next scheduled game, otherwise the next game will be automatically forfeited. Click here for more info on forfeits.
Last Updated: 5/26 12:00PM
Lars Jorgensen -- 6'0" PG, played at Holy Names College
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
NOTE: This is a long FAQ. To search on a particular topic, we recommend that you simply use your browser's "Find" function.
Our team cannot make it to certain game times on Tuesdays and/or Thursdays, 7pm, 8pm, and/or 9pm. Can we still play in your league?
Better not. We have a Sunday morning league starting on June 6 for those of you who cannot make it on Tuesday or Thursday nights. Also, if you have players who cannot make certain tipoffs, we recommend not picking them up. It would be very difficult to schedule you to play on *only* in certain specific time slots -- by the time playoffs hit, we cannot change the playoff schedule at all because the championship is at stake and other captains will likely take a forfeit to win a championship rather than be nice and accommodate your schedule. So please make sure that you will have at least 5 guys available in every possible time slot.
Members of our team are not available during certain weeks due to vacations or what have you. Should we pick them up?
It is much less complicated to leave them off the team. Based on our years of experience playing in and running leagues, we have found that in general, the #1 reason why teams struggle is because they do not have 7 or 8 players who show up on a consistent basis.
However, you may utilize the player eligibility or roster rules to your advantage if you absolutely must get by with certain all-star players who will not be available all the time.
Can we make scheduling requests? Will there be any byes?
Yes, but keep in mind that we need to be fair to the other teams. For example, we will mix up the schedule so that it is reasonably balanced in terms of the number of Tue 7pm, Tue 8pm, Thu 7pm, and Thu 8pm tipoffs for your team.
If your team is out one particular week, then you can request a bye for that week. Each team can have the benefit of one bye week. The game would then be made up during a "makeup" weekend prior to the start of the playoffs.
Is there any way to get a discount on the team or player fee?
There are three ways:
(1) Interview for one of our volunteer openings, assuming they are still available. There are two volunteer openings for the other leagues: (a) as league coordinator at one of our other leagues every Sunday morning, or (b) as mentor/tutor on a weekday, just one hour per week, at one of our partner community centers. Mentor/tutors are subject to background checks. Both league coordinators and tutors are also subject to performance reviews. Contact Rich Twu at firstname.lastname@example.org if you are interested in one of these positions and getting a discount on your player fees.
(2) Refer a new team into one of our many leagues. As you can see on our homepage, we have Women's, Asian, Corporate, and New York City leagues. Please note that this is a one-time commission only and is equivalent to one player registration fee, depending on the league referred into. "New" teams are defined as teams that are not already playing in one of our leagues. "Team" is defined as six or more players not already playing in one of our leagues. The teams who have already expressed interest in entering our league do not count as "new teams", since Dream League has done all the work to get their commitment thus far. So talk to your fellow ballers at the gym, get on the phone for us and you as a player can play for free! Contact Rich Twu at email@example.com for more information.
(3) Check for a corporate nonprofit/grant matching program with your employer. Most large corporations will help you in your social causes by matching any donations you make. Or perhaps you know of a friend or loved one who works at a large corporation, and have *them* make a donation to Dream League on your behalf. Any grants we receive from such programs will entitle you to a discount. Contact us for specifics!
I only have seven players on my team. How much is the team registration fee?
It's still $640 for any number of players on your team up to 8 players. We would not have the funds to pay for the refs and gym without having this minimum per-team fee in place.
Can my players pay you individually instead of the captain bearing the brunt of the entire team fee?
Yes, but we will enforce a strict late fee rule of $5 per week. The minimum team deposit of $200 *must* have already been paid before any game is played. A minimum team total of $640 must have been paid before the second game is played, otherwise, the team will be booted out of the league with no refund.
For example, if three of your eight players do not pay by the first game, the following week we will be expecting $85 from each of those three. Fair warning: by transferring the responsibility of collecting all player fees to the league, you risk the possibility of certain players forgetting to pay and thus putting your entire team in jeopardy.
How much should each player on my team pay, especially if some guys don't play as many minutes as others?
It's entirely up to you as the captain, but we need to collect $640 for teams of 8 players, $720 for 9, and $750 for 10 thru 12. Typically with 8 players, you can simply split the $640 fee 8 ways: $80 each. But if you have 9 players and your 9th player doesn't play much, maybe you want to charge him $60 and the rest of your 8 guys pays for the remaining $580, which is $82.86 for each of those first 8 players.
Are our registration fees tax deductible?
Please contact Rich Twu at firstname.lastname@example.org on an individual basis to discuss tax ramifications.
Why is the registration fee $80 per player when the Tues/Thur night league at Visitacion was $70-75 per player?
The league fees at Visitacion were scaled down due to the quality of the gym. You are now playing in much higher-quality gyms such as St. Mary's Rec Center, which has an NBA three-point line, as well as other rec centers in SF that shall serve as a backup to St. Mary's.
As such, St. Mary's is more expensive. At Visitacion, we were able to pass on the savings.
Can we pay you at our first game?
Yes, you can, but a $200 team deposit must have already been paid. If by the second week the minimum team fee of $640 for eight players has not been paid, your team will be kicked out of the league with no refund. Also, players that forget to bring money at the first game will be assessed a $5 late fee to be collected at the second game. By then we'll know whether or not your team is serious about playing.
Can I make changes to my roster?
You are allowed to make changes to your roster up until the start of the 4th regular season game. For example, if your team paid a total of $640 for 8 roster slots, then up until before the start of your 4th regular season game, you can play any 8 players -- we don't care. Please note that with the $640 fee paid in this example, no more than 8 players can ever play for you in games 1, 2, and 3 -- unless you pay another $80 for that 9th roster slot. At the start of your 4th regular season game, we will ask for a permanent roster whereby no other players except those on the permanent roster can play in the rest of the season including playoffs.
Are there any exceptions to the permanent roster rule?
Only in extreme, unforeseen circumstances such as season-ending injuries. We take these on a case-by-case basis and any issues that we cannot agree upon between league and team will be decided by democratic vote of the remaining team captains.
What is your double-elimination playoff structure?
As devout basketball worshippers, the Dream League likes to avoid one-and-you're-out Final Four bracketing. So we've implemented a double-elimination Winners and Losers Bracket format, whereby the first team left standing without two losses in the playoffs is the champion. Please check our past seasons for samples of such brackets.
If we have 8 or more teams, the league will be split up into two conferences randomly arranged and named "East" and "West" for fun. Just like in the NBA, the top team in each conference will then get the #1 and #2 seeds, making the regular season just that little bit more interesting. You can click here to see how last season's 7-team league, 6-team playoff bracket panned out.
Depending on the number of teams in each league, some cellar-dwellers may not make the playoffs or may only get single-elimination status. For example, two seasons ago we had 17 Asian League teams, 12 of which made the playoffs (all 12 received double-elimination status, although this rule will likely change because all of the lower seeds lost anyways). The other 5 went home after the regular season. In our corporate and open leagues of 7 teams, 6 were allowed to make the playoffs, but only the top 4 were granted double-elimination status.
Please make sure your team is better suited for either the NL or AL levels of competition. Obviously, you should choose which division your team wants to play in wisely.
Is there a playoff eligibility rule for players?
Yes, players must play in at least 3 regular season games to qualify for eligibility in the playoffs. This actually helps captains in getting only players who are committed for the entire season. Also, this avoids teams from picking up ringers just for the playoffs.
What exactly are the NBA-style rules?
Please click on our RULES & REGULATIONS link in the left-hand navigation panel of this website. Starting with the Summer Open League season, we plan to enforce the 6 personal fouls per player and 8-second backcourt rules. The 3-second defensive rule and 24-second shot clocks being reset to 14 on kicked balls and the like, will probably *not* be enforced until later.
What do you mean by "National League", "Top Gun", "Competitive", "American League", and "Intermediate" and "Recreational" levels of play?
As we have done with the Asian American Leagues, we have renamed the Top Gun/Competitive levels to "National League (NL)". Our Asian League Intermediate division is now called the "American League (AL)". For lack of a better naming system and not to disrespect the lower levels of play merely because they are not as athletic, this means that the NL is the "Senior Circuit", generally with more experienced players, and the AL is the "Junior Circuit".
NL, "Top Gun" and "Competitive" mean the same thing. For our Open Leagues, a team with Top Gun caliber should have at least two decent post players, one of them at least 6'4". If not, then the team should have very good chemistry and possess skilled players with strong fundamentals. At least one player should have had some kind of college-level experience. The remaining players should have extensive adult organized rec league experience, preferably high school experience.
Although the word "competitive" is not used as a label for the AL or Intermediate division, the level of play is most definitely competitive even in this level. Each team should have at least one bonafide post player of at least 6'2" in height. Intermediate teams that have more than one 6'4" player should consider playing in the Top Gun division, unless those tall players do not have the skill level to compete in Top Gun. Obviously, the main difference between Top Gun and Intermediate is not so much the competitiveness of each player as it is the height and muscle.
Please note again that the Intermediate level will play only on Tues/Thurs nights, whereas the Top Gun level is available on Sundays only or Tues/Thurs nights only.
Finally, our upcoming Corporate Leagues in Oakland (7/2004) and SF (8/2004) will serve as our Recreational divisions. Feel free to start rallying co-workers to play in these upcoming leagues.
Can I play in two divisions or leagues at the same time?
Yes, but you will be treated as one player in each league. In other words, you will need to register and pay the fees in both leagues.
Can Top Gun All-Star players play in the Intermediate division?
As of this writing, there is no resolution on this issue, however, it would be democratically resolved by majority vote of captains. There has been talk of not allowing more than one Top Gun player that has been voted an All-Star in the previous season to play on an Intermediate team. There has also been talk of not allowing more than three Top Gun players, regardless of being an All-Star or non-All-Star or bench player, on any single Intermediate team. For now, we will have to take this issue on a case-by-case basis.
Why are team uniforms with unique numbers on *both* the front and back required?
This is a requirement so that you can get your stats online! You do want your stats online, right?!! Otherwise, it is nearly impossible to keep stats during the game if we can't figure out who shot what, who rebounded what. Actually, we don't necessarily need *uniforms*. All we are asking for is a non-taped, non-hand-written number on the front and back of each player. This can be as cost-effective as a pair of dark and light t-shirts with a unique number on both the front and back that we help iron on for you ($2 each set). Or purchase a Dream League t-shirt for $5. Or contact us for referrals to jersey/uniform vendors (typically only $1.50 per digit for getting numbers heat-pressed, or $22 for new jerseys, or $30 for pro-style uniforms).
Please note that technical fouls have been and will continue to be issued for illegal (or missing) jerseys. This includes numbers that are not on both the front and back of the jersey.
The only exception to this rule is if the numbers "0" and/or "00" are not already taken, a jersey without a number on it (blank) can be used and assumed to be "0" and/or "00". This means that each team has two "grace jerseys".
Why is there a forfeit fee?
Because forfeits can ruin a good league. Because all we want to do is play; your opponents as well as the league as well as the referees hate it when there are forfeits. Granted, there are times when quirks or accidents happen and you simply can't get the minimum 4 guys there to start a game. Therefore, we give you a warning the first time it happens. If it happens a second time, you'll need to pay a $50 penalty before the start of your next game, otherwise you'll forfeit that game and accrue another $50 penalty and so forth. Half of the $50 forfeit fee will go to the first scheduled opponent that was victimized by the forfeit and the other $25 goes to the second team that was victimized at that point. If we didn't do it this way, then forfeits would get teams pissed off, which then would unfairly reflect badly on the league.
What if my team is running late due to traffic? How do we avoid a forfeit?
First of all, tipoff time is forfeit time. Barring acts of war or Mother Nature or what have you, all parties involved including your opponents, the referees, and the scorekeepers are subject to the same delays as you are, yet we all still need to be there at tipoff time. So the best thing to do is to budget effectively for getting to the game on time! If you have unreliable teammates, either leave them off your roster or tell them to arrive at some earlier time.
Secondly, if you are late and have at least 4 players available, the game will start at the designated *tipoff* time, period. We will not wait until you have 5 guys to start the game.
If your team is late and does not have at least 4 players available, at the designated tipoff time, we will ask your opponent's team captain whether or not he wants to record the game as a forfeit. Some captains will be stingy and take the forfeit, at which point you will be subject to the forfeit fee rules and the referees are not obligated to officiate the game even if the teams show up after the called forfeit.
Some captains know that what comes around goes around and will be nice and decline the forfeit and wait up until 15 minutes past the tipoff time to start the game. On the other hand, if it's the playoffs, you can be sure that your opponents will want to record the game as a forfeit and advance towards the championship. Beyond 15 minutes past the tipoff, the decision is out of your opponent's hands and a forfeit will be recorded.
Thirdly, please note that if one or both teams are late, then the game time will be pro-rated as such: 3 minutes of game clock time for every 5 minutes of elapsed real time. So if you are running late, please be sure to thank your opponent when you arrive and tell him you owe him one for not forfeiting you and for agreeing to be pro-rated. We are forced to pro-rate late games because of the league's financial commitment to referees and gym facilities.